Under the Scales

By Tom Marshall / Osiris Media

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Under the Scales is a podcast by Tom Marshall, longtime songwriter for the band Phish. The podcast captures and brings to light the rich and complex culture surrounding Phish and its diverse, devoted fanbase. Phish's quirky sense of humor pervades and steers the podcast. Tom will interview the band, fans, insiders, outsiders...and dare to go UNDER THE SCALES to uncover the beating heart of Phish!

Episode Date
058:Beyond the Pond Best Albums

Another Osiris podcast, Beyond the Pond, has compiled their top-30 albums of the decade. Tom talks to them about their motivations and the thoughts behind making such an epic compilation. We hear music from each of the hosts' top-10 selections.

Brian Brinkman's top 10 albums:

Brian’s Top Ten Albums of The 2010s:         

01. The War On Drugs: Lost In The Dream 

02. Deerhunter: Halcyon Digest

03. The National: High Violet

04. Vampire Weekend: Modern Vampires Of The City,

05. Low: Double Negative,  

06. The Walkmen: Heaven

07. Cass McCombs: Tip Of The Sphere

08. Beach House: Teen Dream

09. Bon Iver: Bon Iver

10. The National: Trouble Will Find Me,


David Goldstein's top 10 albums:

David’s Top Ten Albums of The 2010s:

01. Robyn: Body Talk 

02. The National: High Violet

03. HAIM: Days Are Gone

04. The War On Drugs: Lost In The Dream,  

05. Sturgill Simpson: Metamodern Sounds In Country Music

06. The Horrors: Primary Colours

07. Wooden Ships: V

08. Kanye West: My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy,  

09. Cut Copy: Zonoscope

10. Viet Cong: Viet Cong


Beyond The Pond on Spotify:





Nov 18, 2019
Special Edition: After Midnight

We want to tell you about a new show from Osiris, After Midnight. It tells the story of Phish’s groundbreaking festival on the eve of the new millennium, Big Cypress. Phish built a city for 80,000 fans in the Everglades, and capped off the festival by playing for 7 hours, ending the concert during sunrise on January 1, 2000. This five-episode series includes interviews with band members Trey Anastasio and Jon Fishman, fans and crew, and looks back on one of the most unique performances in music history. We're going to play the trailer for you now. Please listen, and go to osirispod.com/aftermidnight to subscribe. 

Nov 13, 2019
057:Lyrics Dive 4

Listening can make you wonder. If you've ever wondered about the songs: Dirt, Guyute, Undermind or Light, then listen to this lyrics-analysis podcast and perhaps pieces will fall into place for you. But keep wondering anyway.


Photo Credit: Tom Marshall

Photo Art: Mark Dowd

Oct 14, 2019
056:Lyrics Dive 3

The lyrics for 3 popular Phish songs are examined lovingly by the Under the Scales forensic team. The Wedge, Crowd Control and No Men in No Mans Land are all on the table.


produced by RevoiceMedia.com

Photo credit: Jay Sweet


Sep 30, 2019
055:Scott Aukerman

From 2011 to 2014 there was an amazing Phish podcast called Analyze Phish hosted by Scott Aukerman and Harris Wittels. Once it ended, Tom Marshall, saw an opportunity for another Phish podcast and launched Under the Scales in 2016. In this episode, Tom interviews one of the Analyze Phish hosts, Scott Aukerman. This episode contains clips from the Analyze Phish podcast:



Special thanks to Scott Aukerman, RJ Bee and Earwolf’s friendly staff.

Thanks to producers Nick Ruffini and Kirsten Cluthe of RevoiceMedia.com.

Sep 09, 2019
Special Edition: Tapes Archive

Under the Scales is proud to preview a full episode from Osiris' newest podcast, The Tapes Archive. This one features an interview with Trey Anastasio from 1993 -- a key moment in Phish's growth and transition to a national act.

Subscribe here: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-tapes-archive/id1477111579

Check out: https://www.thetapesarchive.com

Produced and engineered by: revoicemedia.com

Aug 29, 2019

Phish's charitable arm, the Waterwheel Foundation, is discussed by the founders: Beth Montouri Rowles, Matthew Beck and Henry Schwab.
Produced by RevoiceMedia.com

Jul 22, 2019
053:Ticketing with CashOrTrade

Tom speaks with Brando Rich of CashOrTrade.org. Platinum tickets, hoarding, scalping and more are discussed, and how new technology is helping to get face-value tickets into fan’s hands. The ticket secondary market is examined. Buyers often face steep markups, but there are new methods being employed to get more face-value tickets to fans. Produced by revoicemedia.com.

Jun 17, 2019
052:Lyrics Reprise

The lyrics for 5 popular Phish songs are examined lovingly by the Under the Scales forensic team. Scents & Subtle Sounds, Walls of the Cave, Joy, Steam and Pebbles & Marbles are all on the table. Is there a nod to David Bowie in Joy? Is there a very valuable Walls of the Cave T-Shirt about to hit the auction block? Did Tom's dad accidentally steer him off the electrical engineering track and into rock lyrics? Did Tom's voice slip unnoticed onto an actual Phish album? Was Steam composed on an iPad? Did a Walls of the Cave prank sow the seeds for Kasvot Vaxt? YES is the likely answer to all the above. Only one way to get the details...jump in to UTS Episode 52: LYRICS REPRISE!

May 27, 2019
051:Deep Dive into Lyrics

In this episode, Tom dives into the meaning of five popular Phish songs, chosen by co-hosts Tebo Thomas and RJ Bee: Wading in the Velvet Sea, Blaze On, Horn, Bug and Life Boy.

Apr 28, 2019
050:Kevin Statesir

Kevin Statesir, Trey’s brother-in-law and founder of the Burlington Vermont music venue Higher Ground, joins Tom in the studio to discuss Phish from a family perspective, and also how Higher Ground has become an integral piece in the Vermont music puzzle these days. Kevin’s long history in the music biz includes brushes with John Lennon and Keith Richards. Kevin also discusses Trey’s efforts to help with the hurricane-ravaged island of Tortola, Please check out http://trey.com/tortola-relief/ to learn more.

Mar 25, 2019
049:Mike Gordon Part 2

A sampling of Mike’s music accompanies further discussion about the creative process. Mike’s solo projects are covered, and songs highlighted. Mike’s motives for each subsequent project seems to change as his collaborations with admirable artists continues to abound. However, Scott Murawski emerges as possibly Mike’s longest collaborator. Mike discusses his extensive journals he keeps about his playing, and gives us a glimpse into these as he shares the best jams from previous tours. Mike turns the mic around and interviews Tom about songwriting with a few insightful questions.

Feb 18, 2019
048:Mike Gordon Part 1

Mike Gordon joins Tom for the Under the Scales Season 3 opener. This is Part 1 of 2. Mike is a bass player, bandleader, consummate collaborator, songwriter, inventor. Mike speaks on the metaphysics of groove. See where this is going? WAS MIKE ALMOST IN THE WHO??
Crazy how many topics we covered, couldn’t get it done in one hour, so enjoy part 1 of the interview now, part 2 coming at you next Monday!

Feb 11, 2019
047:New Years Countdown with Scott Marks

For the Season 2 closer of Under the Scales, Mockingbird member Scott Marks - also known as @bizarchive - helps Tom rank the best New Years shows in the Phish 3.0 era.

Dec 17, 2018
046:The Kasvot Vaxt Halloween Prank

On Halloween 2018 in Las Vegas, Phish's costume entailed becoming a Scandinavian dance-pop band from the 80's. How? Why? I talk to my pals to sort it all out.


Brian Brinkman,
David Steinberg,
Craig Hillwig,
Jen Bernstein,
RJ Bee,
Stephen "Tebo" Thomas,
Scott Gray

Nov 26, 2018
045:Scott Rogowsky

Amazing host of the sensational HQ Trivia app, Scott Rogowsky, joins Tom and co-host RJ Bee for a spirited discussion and then a Phish trivia quiz!

Oct 29, 2018
044:Annabel Lukins

Jam Cruise Director, Loveboat Hostess, Tanuary, Mother Duck…call her what you will, Annabel Lukins will surprise you with her accomplishments, her love of music, and the depth of her abilities to thrive in the music business and be (actual) friends with everyone she encounters.

Sep 10, 2018
043:Scott Metzger

JRAD guitarist, and Wolf, RANA, Amfibian, F-Hole, Particle and many many others, renaissance man guitarist Scott Metzger talks with Tom and friend Andrew Southern about his musical journey and all those bands!

Aug 27, 2018

Tom and RJ interview Brad Serling, founder of Nugs.net, the company that powers LivePhish and gets webcasts into your home.

Jul 30, 2018
041:Ben & Jerry's

Tom is joined by Jay Curley of Ben & Jerry's, the ice cream company, to discuss their multi-year relationship with Phish. Engineer: Brian Stollery

Jul 02, 2018
040:Brad Sands

Brad Sands, Phish's longtime road manager - from 1991 to 2004 - talks to Tom and Tebo about the good old days, and has some great behind the scenes stories.

Jun 25, 2018
039:Trey's Ghost Story

Osiris co-founder RJ Bee interviews me on Under the Scales for the 20th anniversary of Phish's album Story of the Ghost. We call a special guest to answer some additional questions.

Jun 11, 2018
038:Federal Donuts

I interview Felicia D’Ambrosio, one of the partners of Federal Donuts who supplied all the donuts for Phish’s Baker’s Dozen shows July and August 2017. We learn about stairwells, Neil Young, and that holes are a flavor.

May 28, 2018
037:Dicks 2017

I wander around the Dicks lot during the Phish shows in September 2017 in Denver. I meet and talk to a lot of people including Bethany Barker of Phish Chicks and Paige Clem of the Phellowship. Music, art, glassware, sandwiches, nitrous, artificial legs, tributes to lost fans and guidance aplenty.

May 21, 2018
036:The Pinsky Triangle

Jason Pinsky is Tom's guest in the Under the Scales Season 2 opener. Jason is a former Phish employee, music fan, food fan and cannabis connoisseur. YouTube version of the podcast.

Feb 26, 2018
035:Andy Gadiel

For our Season-ending episode I am joined by the founder of Jambase.com -- Andy Gadiel ushered Phish and fans into the internet age with one of the very first band websites on the World Wide Web. YouTube version of this podcast.

Oct 23, 2017
034:Andy Bernstein

Andy Bernstein, founder of HeadCount, talks to Tom about multiple Phish-related projects.

Oct 09, 2017
033:Scott Herman

Scott Herman and Tebo inflict severe Q&A upon Tom. Scott, for those unaware, has 18 or more Phish songwriting credits to his name. Also: the REAL *Helping Friendly Book* is revealed.

Sep 18, 2017
032:Phil and Friends Q&A

Big Phil and Medium Phil, both longtime Phish friends and fans, stop by to ask Tom questions...only, they forgot the questions. YouTube version of this podcast.

Sep 04, 2017
031:Live Stream

Eli Tishberg tells us about directing the video feed that allows us to see Phish live in our living rooms in unparalleled quality. YouTube version of this podcast.

Aug 21, 2017
030:Jazz is Phish

Jazz Is Phish drummer Adam Chase illuminates the intricate workings of one of the most creative Phish cover bands. YouTube version of this podcast.

Aug 14, 2017

in the studio with Jim Pollock and David Welker, the two cornerstones of the Phish poster phenomenon. YouTube version of this podcast.

Aug 07, 2017
028:Petrea Kelly Q+A

Petrea Davis and Kelly Baines swim Under the Scales to inflict another Q&A upon Tom. YouTube version of this podcast.

Jul 17, 2017
027:Tale of Two Songs

Tom puts the songwriting and recording process under the microscope with two co-writers and two new songs. YouTube version of this podcast.

Jul 10, 2017

Kelly Morris, creator of the captivating video accompaniment to the Phish song 'More', tells us what MORE she has in store! YouTube version of this podcast.

Jul 03, 2017

Yossarian Kelly, early friend of the Dead, early phan, early bird when it comes to growing cannabis legally, calls UTS from Washington to check in. YouTube version of this podcast.

Jun 19, 2017

Garrett Phillips -- also known as PlusSizeModel on PhantasyTour -- describes, among other things, how to pack for a 35 month prison vacation. YouTube version of this podcast.

Jun 12, 2017
023:Steve Martocci

GroupMe founder and Phish super-fan Steve Martocci talks about collaboration and inspiration on a beautiful day in New York City. YouTube version of this podcast.

Jun 05, 2017
022:Andrea Nusinov

Andrea is an amazing Phish photographer who shares secrets on how her hobby took off! She also captures moments and the feeling we forgot. YouTube version of this podcast.

May 15, 2017
021:Questions Answers 1

A new type of episode, in which Tom answers your questions, or at least makes an attempt... YouTube version of this podcast.

May 08, 2017
020:Holly Bowling 2

Holly Bowling continues entrancing us with her musical powers...and disassembles my piano! YouTube version of this podcast.

May 01, 2017
019:Holly Bowling 1

Holly Bowling stops by the studio to educate us musically -- my piano has never sounded better! YouTube version of this podcast.

Apr 17, 2017
018:Benjy Eisen 2

The second half of the Benjy Eisen interview in which we cover Phish and Reed Mathis...oh, and life and lyrics. YouTube version of this podcast.

Apr 10, 2017
017:Benjy Eisen Part 1

Benjy Eisen talks about the wonderful book, Deal, he co-wrote with Bill Kreutzmann of the Grateful Dead. YouTube version of this podcast.

Apr 03, 2017

Phan Art Pete (Mason) created a vibrant art enterprise which has grown beyond the Phish community where it started. And that's just ONE thing he's doing...

Mar 20, 2017
015:Phish Companion

I speak with Phillip Zerbo, co-editor for the incredible Phish Companion Volume 3. Can 30 years fit into 900 pages? YouTube version of this podcast.

Mar 13, 2017

Mike Greenhaus gives us an amazing perspective on how Relix magazine has been involved in and crucial to the jam scene since its inception. YouTube version of this podcast.

Mar 06, 2017
013:Runaway Gin

RJ and I talk to Andy Greenberg, guitarist for Phish cover-band Runaway Gin. YouTube version of this podcast.

Feb 20, 2017

Trey Anastasio explains the magic of Paul Languedoc's guitars to me and Dan Kanter.

Feb 13, 2017

Trey Anastasio shares years of guitar insights with me and Dan Kanter. YouTube version of this podcast.

Feb 06, 2017

Jake Huffman catches me up on the McLovins. Remember the YEM video from 2008 when they were 14 years old?? YouTube version of this podcast.

Jan 16, 2017
009:Higher Thymes

Jen Bernstein stops by to educate me about WEED. Yes, she does. YouTube version of this podcast.

Jan 09, 2017

Tom Bazis is my guide into the infinite...his business is flotation and sensory deprivation and pure relaxation. YouTube version of this podcast.

Jan 02, 2017
007:Dude of Life

Steve Pollak, also known as THE DUDE OF LIFE, talks to me about the early days with Trey in Taft and brings us up to the present musically. YouTube version of this podcast.

Dec 19, 2016
006:Setlist Tees

Ryan Stanley joins me in the studio to discuss his T-shirt business, Amfibian, a movie and other stuff. YouTube version of this podcast.

Dec 12, 2016

Paul Glace, founder of PhantasyTour.com, is featured. We discuss the site's origins and how it grew to the incredible Phish fan destination it is today. YouTube version of this podcast.

Dec 05, 2016

I interview David Steinberg, long-time Phish fan and the band's unofficial statistician. He's an author and extreme long-distance touring expert. He also times shows...and has the scars to prove it. YouTube version of this podcast.

Nov 21, 2016

Co-hosts RJ and Jonathan and I take a DEEP DIVE into Tapers. Tapers are a huge part of Phish's history...but what are they? Who are they? Let's find out. Take a deep breath and jump in with us. YouTube version of this podcast.

Nov 14, 2016
002:Riding the Rail

Derek Gregory joins me in the studio to discuss his extensive experience with Phish...he likes it up close to the band. Real close. I try to figure out the hows and whys of "riding the rail" as it's called. YouTube version of this podcast.

Nov 07, 2016
001:The Songwriting Weekend

In 1997, Trey and I escaped for long weekends to write a lot of songs which eventually appeared on Phish albums and became part of Phish's live repertoire. This is the story of one of those weekends, and how it got off to a *horrifying* start. Trey listened to this and said "it's like the secret backstory for the song Twist" -- and it really is. YouTube version of this podcast.

Nov 07, 2016
000:Let's Take a Ride

My producer, Mark Dowd, and I take a ride through Trey's and my old grade-school, and discuss some history and motivation behind the Under the Scales podcast. YouTube version of this podcast.

Nov 07, 2016