Pastors Talk - A podcast by 9Marks

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Pastors’ Talk is a weekly conversation between Jonathan Leeman and Mark Dever about practical aspects of the Christian life and pastoral ministry.

Episode Date
Episode 190: On Pastoral Patience - Part 1 (with John Folmar & Josh Manley)
1601
For the first ten minutes of this episode, Jonathan Leeman and Mark Dever talk to Josh Manley and John Folmar about Christianity in Afghanistan and the UAE. Then they spend the rest of their time discussing the necessity of pastoral patience.
Nov 30, 2021
Episode 189: How Can I Support International Missions? (with Mark Collins)
1447
Every Christian has a role in supporting international missions. In this episode of Pastors Talk, Jonathan Leeman chats with Mark Dever and Mark Collins—a supported worker in East Asia—about the relationship between a church and its missionaries.
Nov 23, 2021
Episode 188: On Sound Doctrine and the Problems with the "Deconstruction" Project
1607
In this episode of Pastors Talk, Mark Dever chats with Jonathan Leeman about our new Journal and, in particular, Jonathan’s Editor’s Note, which focuses on the problems of the “deconstruction” project.
Nov 16, 2021
Episode 187: On Nine Marks of a Healthy Church (4th Edition)
1291
We released Nine Marks of a Healthy Church more than 20 years ago. Today, we celebrate its fourth edition.

In this Pastors Talk episode, Jonathan chats with Mark about the book’s history, and how this edition introduces two “additional” marks.
Nov 09, 2021
Episode 186: On Gentle and Lowly (with Dane Ortlund)
1844
What’s the thesis of Gentle and Lowly? “Jesus is not who you think he is.”

Jonathan Leeman and Mark Dever chat with Dane Ortlund about his book, and how it ought to shape pastors and local churches.
Nov 02, 2021
Episode 185: On The Path to Being a Pastor — Part 2 (with Bobby Jamieson)
1401
In a previous conversation, Jonathan chatted with Mark and Bobby about the value of going slowly down the road toward pastoral ministry, of being “filtered.” In this follow-up conversation, they discuss a host of other topics: character qualifications, marriage, biblical knowledge, devotional life, and more.

* * * * *

This conversation unpacks the content in Bobby’s new book, "The Path to Being a Pastor".
Oct 26, 2021
Episode 184: On The Path to Being a Pastor — Part 1 (with Bobby Jamieson)
1312
If you desire to be in pastoral ministry, then what should you do? How long should the path be?

In this episode of Pastors Talk, Jonathan Leeman chats with Mark Dever and Bobby Jamieson about the first chapter of Bobby’s new book, "The Path to Being a Pastor".
Oct 19, 2021
Episode 183: On Church-Centered Missions vs Movement-Driven Missions
1878
What’s the difference between “movement-based missions” and “church-based missions”? In this episode of Pastors Talk, Jonathan Leeman chats with Mack Stiles, Brooks Buser, Scott Logsdon, and Aubrey Sequeira about these diverging approaches to obeying the Great Commission.
Oct 12, 2021
Episode 182: On How Buildings Turn Churches into Time Machines (with Adam Sinnett)
1075
Some people say that investing in a bigger building is at odds with investing in the Great Commission. Is that the case?

Mark Dever, Jonathan Leeman, and Adam Sinnett discuss.
Oct 05, 2021
Episode 181: On Translating Books and the Great Commission (with Rick Denham, Daniel Henderson & David Adams)
1216
What does translating books have to do with the Great Commission?

Jonathan Leeman sat down with three international publishers to talk about that question.
Sep 28, 2021
Episode 180: On Filtering Pastoral Candidates (with Bobby Jamieson)
1798
Men who aspire to be a pastor need to be “filtered.” What does that mean?

In this episode of Pastors Talk, Jonathan Leeman, Mark Dever, and Bobby Jamieson discuss. And in the first 7 minutes of this episode, Jonathan asks Mark his thoughts on Mike Cosper’s podcast, The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill.
Sep 21, 2021
Episode 179: On How to Plant a Church (with Eric Bancroft & Matt Smethurst)
1559
Is being a church planter different than being a pastor? What can the book of Acts teach us about church planting?

In this episode of Pastors Talk, Jonathan Leeman and Matt Smethurst ask Eric Bancroft questions about church planting.
Sep 14, 2021
Episode 178: On Rediscover Church (with Collin Hansen)
1597
Some Christians think that local churches are merely dispensers of religious information & religious experiences. Is that true?

In this episode of Pastors Talk, Mark Dever interviews Collin Hansen & Jonathan Leeman about their new book, Rediscover Church.
Sep 07, 2021
Episode 177: On Your Old Testament Sermon Needs to Get Saved (with David King & Mike Bullmore)
1220
How do you preach a Christ-centered sermon from the Old Testament? Jonathan Leeman chats with David King and Mike Bullmore about our new preaching book, "Your Old Testament Sermon Needs to Get Saved".
Aug 31, 2021
Episode 176: On Why We Gather Twice on Sundays
1295
In this episode of Pastors Talk, Jonathan Leeman chats with Mark Dever about gathering twice on Sundays, and why it might be good for your church to be “inconvenient.”
Aug 24, 2021
Episode 175: On Plagiarism in the Pulpit (with Ben Lacey)
2399
Recently, there’s been lots of conversation about what constitutes plagiarism in the pulpit.

So Jonathan Leeman chatted with Mark Dever and Ben Lacey about the topic.
Jul 07, 2021
Episode 174: On Why Is the Lord's Supper So Important? (with Aubrey M. Sequeira & Sam Emadi)
1445
Why is the Lord’s Supper so important? What should ordinary Christians know about it?

Jonathan Leeman interviews Aubrey M. Sequeira and Sam Emadi about this question.
Jun 29, 2021
Episode 173: On How Can I Find Someone to Disciple Me? (with Garrett Kell & Mike McKinley)
1534
Have you ever asked, “How can I find someone to disciple me?”

In this episode of Pastors Talk, Jonathan Leeman chats with Mark Dever, Garrett Kell, and Mike McKinley about that common question.
Jun 22, 2021
Episode 172: On Pastoring and Parenting (with David Helm, Juan Sanchez, and Michael Lawrence)
2624
In this episode of Pastors Talk, Jonathan Leeman chats with David Helm, Juan Sanchez, and Michael Lawrence about the unique blessings and burdens of parenting your kids while also pastoring your church.
Jun 08, 2021
Episode 171: On Does God Love Everyone? (with Matt McCullough & Mike McKinley)
1327
Does God love everyone?

Jonathan Leeman chats with Mark Dever, Mike McKinley, and Matt McCullough about our new Church Questions booklet on that important question.
May 18, 2021
Episode 170: On Men and Women in the Church (with Kevin DeYoung)
1537
Kevin DeYoung recently wrote a new book—"Men and Women in the Church: A Short, Biblical, Practical Introduction". In this episode of Pastors Talk, Jonathan Leeman chats with Mark Dever and DeYoung about the role of men and women in healthy churches.
May 04, 2021
Episode 169: On Why Should I Give to My Church (with Jamie Dunlop)
1446
Most Christians know that they should give to their church, but fewer know why they should. In this episode of Pastors Talk, Jonathan Leeman chats with Mark Dever and Jamie Dunlop about this topic, which is also covered in Jamie's new booklet, "Why Should I Give to My Church?"
Apr 27, 2021
Episode 168: On Membership Interviews
1087
Why should pastors meet with prospective church members? What should they talk about when they do?

In this episode of Pastors Talk, Jonathan Leeman chats with Mark Dever about the usefulness of membership interviews.
Apr 20, 2021
Episode 167: On Deacons (with Matt Smethurst)
1630
What does the Bible say about deacons? How are they different than elders? Should they balance the authority of the elders?

In this episode of Pastors Talk, Jonathan Leeman chats with Mark Dever and Matt Smethurst about his new book.
Apr 13, 2021
Episode 166: On How Can Women Thrive in the Local Church (with Keri Folmar)
1370
Are local churches uniquely difficult for women? How can women thrive in our churches?

In this episode of Pastors Talk, Jonathan Leeman and Mark Dever chat with Keri Folmar about her new booklet from Crossway and 9Marks.
Apr 06, 2021
Episode 165: On Overview Sermons
1457
In this episode of Pastors Talk, Jonathan chats with Mark about the value of preaching big chunks of texts, including whole books in one sermon.
Mar 30, 2021
Episode 164: On Pastoral Sabbaticals (with Jamie Dunlop)
1511
Are sabbaticals in the Bible? Are they . . . fair? (After all, what other profession gets them!) How should they be structured?
Mar 16, 2021
Episode 163: On Paying Pastors (with Jamie Dunlop)
1567
How much should churches pay their pastors? How can they even find the answer to that question? Should a pastor ever ask for a raise?

Jonathan Leeman chats with Mark Dever and Jamie Dunlop about these questions.
Mar 09, 2021
Episode 162: On Firing Church Staff
1403
Firing someone is almost always hard, perhaps especially in the church. In this episode of Pastors Talk, Jonathan chats with Mark about this difficult topic, one that Mark says is a personal weakness of his.
Mar 02, 2021
Episode 161: On Corporate Worship (with Matt Merker)
1472
In this episode of Pastors Talk, Jonathan Leeman chats with Mark Dever and Matt Merker about Merker’s new book "Corporate Worship".
Feb 23, 2021
Episode 160: On Raising Up Elders in a Growing Church
1591
In a growing church, nominating elders can be hard. After all, people might not know the man. They might never have heard him teach. So what’s a church to do?

Jonathan Leeman chats with Mark Dever about raising up elders as a church’s culture changes.
Feb 16, 2021
Episode 159: On How to Talk to Your Church About Leaving (with Hershael York)
1482
How transparent should pastors be with their congregation as they think about pursuing other jobs? As it turns out, Mark Dever and Hershael York offer different counsel on this. Jonathan Leeman chats with them about the wisdom of different approaches.
Feb 09, 2021
Episode 158: On Chairing an Elders Meeting (with Isaac Adams & Ken Barbic)
2083
There’s nothing in the Bible about who should chair—lead—elders’ meetings. But the role and responsibility of the elder chairman is nonetheless very important. Jonathan Leeman chats with Mark Dever, Ken Barbic, and Isaac Adams.
Feb 02, 2021
Episode 157: On Why Should I Be Baptized? (with Bobby Jamieson)
1382
Surely you’ve heard someone ask, “But pastor, why should I be baptized?”

In this episode of Pastors Talk, Jonathan Leeman chats with Mark Dever and Bobby Jamieson about that important question.
Jan 26, 2021
Episode 156: On How Pastors Should Prepare their People for Eternity
1493
In this episode of Pastors Talk, Jonathan Leeman chats with Mark Dever about one of the pastor’s most important jobs: preparing his people for eternity.
Jan 19, 2021
Episode 155: On Remembering 2020
1053
This year has been hard, but now it’s finally (nearly) over. In this final Pastors Talk of 2020, Jonathan Leeman chats with Mark Dever about the highs and lows of this particular year.
Dec 15, 2020
Episode 154: On A Bunch of Fun Biographies
1758
Are you looking for books to read this holiday season? Jonathan Leeman chats with Mark Dever about a bunch of fun biographies.
Dec 08, 2020
Episode 153: On Caring for Members Unwilling to Come Back to Church (with Nathan Knight)
1542
Among the many things 2020 has made more complicated, chief among them is caring for members who are unwilling to come back to church.
Dec 02, 2020
Episode 152: On Virtual "Church"
1219
For years, certain churches and ministries have referred to “virtual church” or “attending church online.” This year of COVID-19—the “anti-gathering virus,” as Mark puts it in this episode—has made such phrases even more popular.
Nov 24, 2020
Episode 151: On How Much a Pastor Should Care About His Reputation
2198
Paul says pastors must be “well thought of by outsiders.” But Jesus says we’re “blessed” when others speak evil about us, even falsely.

What do we do with this? How much should a pastor care about his reputation?
Nov 10, 2020
Episode 150: On Cleaning the Membership Rolls - Part 2 (with Matt Schmucker)
1477
Episode 149 explained what “cleaning the rolls” means, and why pastors should lead their churches to do it. Episode 150 continues the conversation, but focuses on how to actually get it done.

Jonathan Leeman, Mark Dever, and Matt Schmucker discuss.
Nov 03, 2020
Episode 149: On Cleaning the Membership Rolls - Part 1 (with Matt Schmucker)
1323
Some churches report hundreds of members, with dozens in attendance. These churches need to “clean their rolls.”

Jonathan Leeman chats with Mark Dever and Matt Schmucker about what that means and why churches should do it.
Oct 27, 2020
Episode 148: On How A Culture of Discipling + Lay Elders = Church Planting
1642
Healthy churches plant churches. But how? What causes a church to “bubble over”? Here’s one way.
Oct 20, 2020
Episode 147: On the Appeal and the Errors of Theonomy (with T. David Gordon)
2313
Broadly speaking, “theonomy” is the theological persuasion that civil societies ought to be governed by the Mosaic Law. In this episode of Pastors Talk, Jonathan Leeman and Mark Dever chat with T. David Gordon about the errors and appeal of theonomy.
Oct 13, 2020
Episode 146: On Preparing for a Tough Political Season (Part 2)
1725
We just released a new Journal: Pastoring through Political Turmoil. In this episode of Pastors Talk, Jonathan chats with Mark about the Journal in particular and the topic of pastoring through an election season in general.
Oct 06, 2020
Episode 145: On Preparing for a Tough Political Season (Part 1)
1485
In this episode of Pastors Talk, Mark and Jonathan talk about how pastors can prepare their people for a tough political season.
Sep 29, 2020
Episode 144: On Lay Elders - Part 2 (with Klon Kitchen)
1355
How do you prevent a potential friction between staff and lay elders? How do you ensure they’re not just “yes men”? How much deference should non-staff elders give others?

In this episode of Pastors Talk, Jonathan Leeman, Mark Dever, and Klon Kitchen continue their conversation on lay elders.
Sep 22, 2020
Episode 143: On Lay Elders - Part 1 (with Klon Kitchen)
1542
Churches ought to have elders. Some will be paid (1 Tim. 5), but many will be not. These unpaid elders are called “lay elders.” Is this distinction in this Bible? Are lay elders “minor-league elders”? Are they called to ministry in the same way senior pastors are? How can a church make sure that there isn’t a deep divide between elders who are paid by the church and those who aren’t?

In this episode of Pastors Talk, Jonathan Leeman chats with Mark Dever and Klon Kitchen (a lay elder at Cheverly Baptist Church) about these questions and more.
Sep 15, 2020
Bible Talk — Genesis 1:1–3:19: On the Serpent, the Promised Seed, and Nahash the King of the Ammonites
2720
In this inaugural episode of Bible Talk, Alex Duke chats with Jim Hamilton and Sam Emadi about the first three chapters of Genesis. These first three chapters of the Bible are so important because they set the trajectory for everything that comes next—all the way until we get to Revelation 22.

Bible Talk is available on iTunes, Spotify and 9Marks.org.
Sep 09, 2020
Episode 142: On Preparing for the Next Guy
1134
Sep 08, 2020
Episode 141: On The Life and Ministry of J. I. Packer
3865
Jul 28, 2020
Episode 140: A Conversation about Grace Community Church's Statement on Civil Disobedience
1391
Jonathan and Mark chat about Grace Community Church’s decision, civil disobedience, and how Christians ought to approach this season with an extra amount of charity and grace.
Jul 26, 2020
Episode 139: On Remembering J. I. Packer
2131
In this special episode of Pastors Talk, Jonathan Leeman asks Mark Dever to reflect on his friendship with J. I. Packer.
Jul 22, 2020
Episode 138: On What if I Don't Desire to Pray (with John Onwuchekwa)
1509
As Christians, we know we should pray. But too often, we fail to because we simply don’t desire to.
Jul 21, 2020
Episode 137: On What If I Don't Feel Like Going to Church (with Gunner Gundersen)
1204
Sadly, missing church is common. Sometimes, it's for good reasons; other times, it's not. As a pastor, how many times have you heard a member tell you, "I'm so sorry we missed last Sunday—we just couldn't make it with everything we have going on!"?

In this episode of Pastors Talk, Jonathan Leeman chats with Mark Dever and Gunner Gundersen about how we should respond to those who simply don't feel like going to church—and so they miss for this-or-that reason.
Jul 14, 2020
Episodes 136: On Pastors and Social Media
1279
Many pastors feel pressure from their members to speak up on social media. “Why aren’t you talking about ___________? Don’t you care?”

In this episode of Pastors Talk, Jonathan Leeman chats with Mark Dever about how pastors ought to approach social media use.
Jul 07, 2020
Episode 135: On Shepherding: The Work and Character of a Pastor
1635
In this Pastors Talk episode, Jonathan chats with Mark about the new 9Marks Journal: On Shepherding — The Work and Character of a Pastor. They focus on three traits of a pastor:

— They should be godly & gifted, but especially godly.
— They should care about other churches.
— They shouldn’t freak out.
Jun 30, 2020
Episode 134: On the Difference between Revival and Revivalism
1544
In his book Revival & Revivalism, Iain Murray defines revival as God using ordinary means to effect extraordinary change. That’s much different than revivalism, which is when man tries to use extraordinary means to effect the same, extraordinary change.

Can you tell the difference between the two? Is it even possible? In this episode of Pastors Talk, Jonathan asks Mark to take a brief tour of church history so that pastors and Christians today can discern the difference between revival—a good thing—and revivalism—a bad thing.
Jun 23, 2020
Episode 133: On Why Should I Join a Church?
1211
Have you ever met a growing Christian who is self-consciously choosing not to join a church? In this episode of Pastors Talk, Jonathan Leeman chats with Mark Dever about the vital necessity of joining a local church.

For more on this topic, check out Mark’s new mini-book in the Church Questions series: "Why Should I Join a Church?"
Jun 16, 2020
Episode 132: On Teaching Your Church about Issues Related to Race (with Jeff Brown, James Miles, and Mark Vroegop)
2551
Should pastors try to educate their church about issues related to race and racism? If so, how?

In this Pastors’ Talk episode, Jonathan Leeman chats with three staff members of College Park Church—Mark Vroegop, Jeff Brown, and James Miles—about what they’ve done, how they’ve done it, and why the journey is worth whatever difficulties it brings.
Jun 09, 2020
Episode 131: On Pastoring Amidst National Trauma (with Garrett Kell)
2764
The past few weeks have been hard. People are grieving and angry, scared and confused.

How should pastors lead and love their people during a national trauma? Jonathan Leeman and Garrett Kell discuss.
Jun 05, 2020
Episode 130: On How Can I Love Church Members with Different Politics (with Andy Naselli)
1566
Conversations about politics are often emotionally charged. We disagree because our consciences are calibrated differently. So how can we still love each other? Mark Dever, Jonathan Leeman, and Andy Naselli discuss.
Jun 02, 2020
Episode 129: On Principles to Consider as We Gather Again
902
As churches move toward gathering again, there are lots of principles to consider. One of the most important—and one of the least talked about—is the difference between what’s a church and what’s not a church.

Mark Dever and Jonathan Leeman discuss in this Pastors’ Talk episode.
May 26, 2020
Episode 128: On When Elders Disagree (with Matt Schmucker)
1967
In this episode of Pastors' Talk, Jonathan Leeman chats with Mark Dever and Matt Schmucker about what to do when elders disagree.
May 19, 2020
Episode 127: On Character Matters (with Aaron Menikoff)
1490
A few years ago, someone told pastor Aaron Menikoff that he was too harsh. The Holy Spirit took that feedback, and sparked in Aaron a fresh desire to pursue the fruit of the Spirit, which ultimately led to this new book: Character Matters.

In this episode of Pastors’ Talk, Jonathan Leeman and Mark Dever chat with Aaron about the importance of godly character in the life of all Christians, especially pastors.
May 12, 2020
Episode 126: On When Should Churches Practice Civil Disobedience? (with Bobby Jamieson)
1893
May 05, 2020
Episode 125: On "What Should I Do Now That I'm a Christian?" (with Sam Emadi)
1501
Apr 28, 2020
Episode 124: On The Case Against Multisite in One Assembly
1364
In the previous Pastors’ Talk episode, Jonathan and Mark chatted about why he wrote One Assembly and how he hopes the book will be received. In this episode, Mark asks Jonathan to make his best case from the Bible against multi-site and multi-service churches.
Apr 21, 2020
Episode 123: On Why We Pick the Multisite Fight in One Assembly
1326
Jonathan’s new book One Assembly argues against multi-site and multi-service churches. What motivated him to write a whole book on the topic? Isn’t this much ado about very little?

In this episode of Pastors’ Talk, Mark chats with Jonathan about his new book, why he loves multi-site and multi-service pastors, and what he hopes the book will accomplish.

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Apr 14, 2020
Episode 122: On Hell
1515
Apr 07, 2020
Episode 121: On Pastoring Suffering People (with Andy Johnson)
1554
Mar 31, 2020
Episode 120: On Shepherding Saints While Sheltered In Place (with Garrett Kell)
1818
Mar 24, 2020
Episode 119: On When the Church Can't Gather
1196
Mar 17, 2020
Quick Take: What Should Churches Do About Coronavirus?
293
In this Pastor's Talk mini-episode, Mark Dever discusses what pastors and churches should do in light of the Coronavirus pandemic.
Mar 12, 2020
Episode 118: On Spontaneous Baptisms (with Caleb Morell)
1673
Mar 10, 2020
Episode 117: On the Connection Between Baptism & Church Membership
1527
It should be exceedingly rare to baptize someone apart from local church membership. In this episode of Pastors' Talk, Jonathan chats with Mark about the connection between the two.

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Mar 03, 2020
Episode 116: On Training Young Preachers (with Isaac Adams)
1629
One of the best ways to raise up the next generation of preachers is to give unproven guys opportunities. In this episode, Jonathan Leeman chats with Mark Dever and Isaac Adams about training young preachers.

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Feb 25, 2020
Episode 115: On the Regulative Principle
1504
God has told us in his Word how we ought to approach him in worship. This should shape how we plan our Sunday gatherings. But it also raises a question: Are we free to do things in our gatherings that God does not explicitly prescribe?

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Feb 18, 2020
Episode 114: On Pastoring Difficult Members (with Nathan Knight & John Joseph)
1715
In this episode of Pastors’ Talk, Jonathan Leeman chats with Mark Dever, John Joseph, and Nathan Knight about a topic every pastor knows well: how to care for difficult people.

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Feb 11, 2020
Episode 113: On Biblical Theology (with Paul Alexander)
1737
In this Pastors’ Talk episode, Jonathan chats with Mark and Paul Alexander about biblical theology. They cover questions like:

— How do we accurately preach Christ from the Old Testament?
— How should we preach Jesus as a moral example?
— How do we get better at this?
Feb 04, 2020
Episode 112: On Planning & Preaching for Non-Christians
1722
To what degree should our services and sermons be aimed at non-Christians? How “seeker-sensitive” should we be?

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Jan 28, 2020
Preachers' Talk - Episode 1: On Preaching
1791
In this inaugural episode of Preachers’ Talk, Jonathan Leeman chats with three friends from Simeon Trust—David Helm, Ed Copeland, and Jeremy Meeks—about preaching. To listen to Preachers' Talk, visit 9Marks.org
Jan 23, 2020
Episode 111: On Expositional Preaching
1626
Jan 21, 2020
Episode 110: On Preaching, the Supper, and the Unity of the Church (with Bobby Jamieson & Mark Feather)
1614
Recently, the well-known pastor and author Francis Chan made some alarming comments about preaching, the Lord’s Supper, and the unity of the church. In this episode of Pastors’ Talk, Jonathan chats with Mark Dever, Bobby Jamieson, and Mark Feather about Chan’s comments in particular and the topics of preaching, the Supper, and unity more generally.

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Jan 14, 2020
Episode 109: On Complementarianism: A Moment of Reckoning
1858
In this episode of Pastors’ Talk, Jonathan chats with Mark about the new 9Marks Journal, Complementarianism: A Moment of Reckoning. Our Journals may be downloaded for free at 9Marks.org.

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Dec 17, 2019
Episode 108: On Why Pastoral Candidates Should NOT Put Their Best Foot Forward (with Blake Boylston)
1729
Prospective pastors, don’t put your best foot forward.

In this episode of Pastors’ Talk, Jonathan Leeman chats with Mark Dever and Blake Boylston about the interviewing and candidating process.

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Dec 10, 2019
Episode 107: On Pastoring Amid Depression (with Blake Boylston)
2258
Christians get depressed, which means pastors get depressed, too. In this episode of Pastors’ Talk, Jonathan chats with Mark and Blake Boylston about how pastors ought to face seasons of depression.

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Dec 03, 2019
Episode 106: On Spiritual Gifts
1363
“I’m gifted in . . . ” How would you finish that sentence?

In this episode of Pastors’ Talk, Mark and Jonathan talk about how our spiritual gifts are primarily meant for the body. Our gifts aren’t, first and foremost, about our ability, but others’ edification.

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Nov 26, 2019
Episode 105: On Transitioning to Elders - Part 2
1467
Nov 19, 2019
Episode 104: On Transitioning to Elders - Part 1
1408
Nov 12, 2019
Episode 103: On Pastoring a Small Church (with PJ Tibayan & Jonathan Worsley)
1337
Pastoring small churches comes with unique challenges. In this Pastors’ Talk episode, Jonathan Leeman, Mark Dever, PJ Tibayan, and Jonathan Worsley discuss the blessings and burdens of shepherding a small flock.

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Nov 05, 2019
Episode 102: On Helping Church Members with Spiritual Disciplines (with Brian Davis & John Onwuchekwa)
1057
Oct 29, 2019
Episode 101: On Conversion (with Michael Lawrence)
1713
Oct 22, 2019
Episode 100: On Remembering Death (with Ligon Duncan & Matt McCullough)
1724
In this episode of Pastors’ Talk, Jonathan Leeman chats with author Matt McCullough about his book “Remember Death.” They’re joined by Mark Dever and Ligon Duncan.

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Oct 15, 2019
Episode 99: On the Pastor’s Prayer Life (with Thabiti Anyabwile & H.B. Charles Jr.)
1487
Recorded live during 9Marks at Southeastern 2019.

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Oct 08, 2019
Episode 98: On Christian Journalism (with Collin Hansen & Matt Smethurst)
1361
Oct 01, 2019
Episode 97: On Celebrating Pastoral Anniversaries (with Isaac Adams)
1824
Sep 24, 2019
Episode 96: On Church Elders (with Jeramie Rinne)
1275
In this episode of Pastors’ Talk, Jonathan Leeman chats with Jeramie Rinne about the character and job description of an elder.

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Sep 17, 2019
Episode 95: On the Value of Church History
1607
Sep 10, 2019
Episode 94: On The Heart of the Gospel: Penal Substitutionary Atonement
1265
In this episode of Pastors’ Talk, Jonathan chats with Mark about our new Journal—Heart of the Gospel: Penal Substitutionary Atonement.

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Sep 03, 2019
Episode 93: On 1 Timothy 2:12 and Recent Complementarian Kerfuffles
1890
In recent months, complementarians have been in ongoing discussions about what precisely it means to be a complementarian. Does it mean that women ought not be pastors? Does it mean that women ought not preach in the church? What does 1 Timothy 2:12 specifically forbid?

Unfortunately, many of these conversations yield more heat than light. In this episode of Pastors’ Talk, Mark and Jonathan chat about these recent complementarian kerfuffles, in particular how the two “sides” of the argument can disagree and converse with one another charitably.

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Jun 25, 2019
Episode 92: Are Healthy Churches Enough for Today's Problems?
3133
Our world is full of problems. But what can healthy churches do about it?

In this episode of Pastors’ Talk, Jonathan sits down with Mark to talk about different cultural problems—from the #MeToo movement to identity politics, from social justice concerns to persecution—and think through how pastors ought to address them.

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Jun 18, 2019
Episode 91: On the Highs and Lows of Denominational Life
1160
Jun 11, 2019
Episode 90: On Pastoral Visits (with Brian Davis)
1692
Jun 04, 2019
Episode 89: On Baptism and Membership (with Ligon Duncan)
1865
May 28, 2019
Episode 88: On the Prosperity Gospel (with Sean Demars & Greg Gilbert)
1841
May 21, 2019
Episode 87: On Church Membership
1463
In this episode of Pastors’ Talk, Jonathan chats with Mark about our new Journal—Church Membership: Following the Lord Together.
May 14, 2019
Episode 86: On What is the Gospel (with Greg Gilbert)
1758
May 07, 2019
Episode 85: On What Miserable Christians Sing (with Carl Trueman and Matt Merker)
1519
Apr 30, 2019
Episode 84: On Church Buildings
1193
We know the church is comprised of the people, not the building. And yet, church buildings can be extremely valuable, useful, and vital for the health of long-term Christianity.

In this conversation, Jonathan chats with Mark about these topics and more.

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Apr 23, 2019
Episode 83: On Overcoming Fear in Personal Evangelism (with Isaac Adams)
1873
Apr 16, 2019
Episode 82: On How Your Budget is a Spiritual Issue (with Jamie Dunlop)
1808
Jonathan talks to Jamie Dunlop about the new book, "Budgeting for a Healthy Church" now available in the 9Marks bookstore. Visit 9marks.org/bookstore for more.

"If you want to see your church move toward health, the church budget has to move toward health."

--

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Apr 02, 2019
Episode 81: On the Christian Practice of Lament (with Mark Vroegop)
1771
Lament is a "prayer in pain that leads to trust."

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Mar 26, 2019
Episode 80: On Planning your Preaching Schedule
1474
Mar 19, 2019
Episode 79: On Funerals
1313
Mar 12, 2019
Episode 78: On Pastoring Members in the Workplace (with Sebastian Traeger)
1578
Mar 05, 2019
Episode 77: On Living Close to your Church
1389
When deciding where to live, Christians ought to consider normal factors: school district, safety, etc. But they should also consider—and perhaps even prioritize—how location affects their relationships at church.

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Feb 26, 2019
Episode 76: On Pastoral Pay
1544
The Great Commission has been fulfilled, at least in part, by local Christians setting aside money to pay someone to teach them God’s Word full-time when possible.

Mark Dever and Jonathan Leeman discuss the principle of churches paying their pastors.

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Feb 19, 2019
Episode 75: On Church Planting (with Brian Davis and Nathan Knight)
1829
What’s the difference between a church plant and a church? Is it best to start a church with a team of pastors rather than a solo pastor?

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Feb 12, 2019
Episode 74: On Ecclesiology for Calvinists (with Sam Emadi)
1593
For this episode of Pastors’ Talk, Jonathan interviewed Mark Dever and Sam Emadi about our new Journal, Ecclesiology for Calvinists. Download the 9Marks Journal at http://9marks.org .

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Feb 05, 2019
Episode 73: On The Lord's Supper (with Bobby Jamieson)
1758
In this episode of Pastors’ Talk, Jonathan asks Mark and Bobby a bunch of questions about the Lord’s Supper. What’s the most biblical position: open, close, or closed? Should the Supper be given at small groups and summer camps, weddings and nursing homes? How often—weekly, monthly, quarterly?
Jan 29, 2019
Episode 72: On Baptism (with Bobby Jamieson)
1858
Almost every Christian denomination and tradition practices baptism. In this episode of Pastors' Talk, Mark and Jonathan are joined by Bobby Jamieson to discuss practical questions about baptism and its connection to the local church.

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Jan 22, 2019
Episode 71: On Canceling Church
1407
In this episode, Mark and Jonathan discuss the biblical and theological principles for why Christians gather on Sundays, and why, generally speaking, those principles make canceling any Sunday gathering an unusual choice.
Jan 15, 2019
Episode 70: On Church Revitalization (with Aaron Menikoff & Andy Davis)
1706
What do pastors in the throes of church revitalization need to know? In this episode of Pastors’ Talk, Jonathan interviews Mark and two other pastors who went through a revitalization, Andy Davis and Aaron Menikoff.

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Jan 08, 2019
Episode 69: On Pastoral Calling (with Brad Wheeler)
1552
How does a man discern whether he ought to pursue pastoral ministry? What if he's already in a successful career?

In this episode of Pastors' Talk, Mark and Jonathan chat with Brad Wheeler about how the Lord led him away from a career in finance to pastoral ministry.

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Dec 18, 2018
Episode 68: On Missionaries and Churches (with Andy Johnson and John Folmar)
1690
In this episode of Pastors’ Talk, Jonathan sits down with Mark, John Folmar, and Andy Johnson to talk about healthy churches and global missions.

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Dec 11, 2018
Episode 67: On Hospitality and the Gospel (with Kent & Rosaria Butterfield)
3380
Dec 04, 2018
Episode 66: On Contextualization (with John Folmar and Trip Lee)
2115
What’s the goal in contextualization? How do we know if we’ve gone too far, or not far enough?
Nov 27, 2018
Episode 65: On Jonathan's New Book, The Rule of Love
1665
The Bible tells us that “God is love.” But what does that actually mean? And what does it have to do with our lives and the local church?

In this episode of Pastors’ Talk, Mark Dever and Jonathan Leeman chat about Jonathan’s new book, The Rule of Love.
Nov 20, 2018
Episode 64: On Equipping the Church to Fight Pornography Together (with Deepak Reju)
1860
It’s vital for individual Christians to pursue holiness. But how can church members work *together* in fighting against the sin of pornography?
Nov 13, 2018
Episode 63: On The Pastor and Pornography
1842
Nov 06, 2018
Episode 62: On How to Prepare a Church to Practice Discipline
1333
Oct 30, 2018
Episode 61: On Shepherding during Disagreements
1629
‪How should a pastor shepherd people through disagreement? How should he balance the tension between being a truth-teller and a peacemaker?‬ ‪Mark and Jonathan discuss.

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Oct 23, 2018
Episode 60: On Cultivating a Culture of Evangelism
1144
Churches shouldn’t farm out personal evangelism to pastors, professionals, or programs. Instead, the goal for every church ought to be a culture of evangelism.

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Oct 16, 2018
Episode 59: On Teaching the Church about the Church
1311
Pastors must teach their people about what a church is. If they don’t, then who will?

In this episode of Pastors’ Talk, Mark Dever and Jonathan Leeman talk about this often overlooked part of a pastor’s job description.
Oct 09, 2018
Episode 58: On Members Meetings
1407
Are members’ meetings in the Bible? How can a pastor cultivate a culture where people care about the business of their church? What tone should mark these kinds of meetings?

In this episode of Pastors’ Talk, Mark and Jonathan discuss members meetings—what they are, where they are in the Bible, and how to make them of spiritual interest.
Oct 02, 2018
Episode 57: On Prayer (with John Onwuchekwa)
1745
In the season premiere of Pastors’ Talk, Jonathan and Mark sit down with John Onwuchekwa to talk about his new 9Marks book Prayer: How Praying Together Shapes the Church.
Sep 25, 2018
Episode 56: On Pastoral Burnout
1775
Mark and Jonathan discuss the subject of burnout, particularly how it happens and what church leaders can do to avoid it in the first place.
Jul 17, 2018
Episode 55: On the Ministry of Good Christian Books
1795
Good books help us follow Jesus. In this episode of Pastors’ Talk, Mark and Jonathan discuss instrumental books in Mark’s conversion, what books every prospective pastor should read, and what books church leaders should hand out to their people.
Jun 05, 2018
Episode 54: On “Broad” & “Narrow” Complementarianism
1600
Complementarianism is an umbrella term, under which Christians with both “narrow” and “broad” convictions stand.

Narrow complementarians are reluctant to say much more about the differences between men and women beyond texts like Ephesians 5:22 and 1 Tim. 2:12. “Broad” complementarians place these Pauline precepts inside of a larger theological “vision” or “definition” of manhood and womanhood that applies to all of life.

In this episode of Pastors’ Talk, Jonathan Leeman and Mark Dever talk about these theological distinctions, and how they sometimes threaten the unity of local churches.
May 29, 2018
Episode 53: On Deacons
1724
What does a biblical deacon do? How do they differ from elders? In this episode of Pastors’ Talk, Jonathan talks to Mark about the biblical office of deacon.
May 22, 2018
Episode 52: On the Sufficiency of Scripture
1601
What do we mean when we say that Scripture is “sufficient”? Does the sufficiency of Scripture have anything to do with pastoral ministry? Does it shackle pastors or does it provide them reassurance?

In this episode of Pastors’ Talk, Jonathan chats with Mark about these questions and more.
May 15, 2018
Episode 51: On How the Reformation Changed Sunday Gatherings (with Jonathan Gibson)
2038
Through the liturgies of the Reformation, evangelical doctrine was as much caught in public worship as it was taught in published writings
May 08, 2018
Episode 50: On the Role of Associate Pastors
1877
In this episode of Pastors’ Talk, Jonathan Leeman sits down with pastors Jamie Dunlop and Bobby Jamieson to discuss their roles, and how their work complements Mark’s as the senior pastor.
May 01, 2018
Episode 49: On How the Nations Rage
1794
In this episode, Mark chats with Jonathan about his new book How the Nations Rage: Rethinking Faith & Politics in a Divided Age.
Apr 24, 2018
Episode 48: On Core Seminars and Sunday School
1497
For many churches, the Sunday School hour has gone by the wayside. In this episode of Pastors' Talk, Mark and Jonathan talk about how Core Seminar classes can become a vital ministry for any local church.
Apr 17, 2018
Episode 47: On T4G and Celebrity Pastors
1774
We're gearing up for the sixth Together for the Gospel conference. Does this conference—which will host 12,000+ people—exacerbate the problem of celebrity pastors, especially as articulated recently on TGC by Andy Crouch?

Mark Dever and Jonathan Leeman discuss this question among many others.
Apr 10, 2018
Episode 46: On Biblical Theology
1792
In this episode, Mark and Jonathan sit down with Nick Roark, a pastor and the author of the new book "Biblical Theology: How the Church Faithfully Teaches the Gospel".
Apr 03, 2018
Episode 45: On Elders Meetings (Part 2)
1848
Jonathan and Mark continue their conversation on elders' meetings, exploring common questions like: should elders require unanimity? What should a new pastor do if he inherits a contentious elder? Should close decisions be delayed, or should elders just move forward? How can senior pastors resist the temptation to dominate every meeting?
Mar 27, 2018
Episode 44: On Elders Meetings (Part 1)
1393
Mar 20, 2018
Episode 43: On Pastoring Through Theological Controversies
1888
It's not a pastor's job to have a PhD. But pastors *are* called to protect the flock from false teachers, and to shepherd people through theological questions and concerns.

In this episode of Pastors' Talk, Mark and Jonathan are joined by Ligon Duncan of Reformed Theological Seminary to talk through these issues.
Mar 13, 2018
Episode 42: On the Usefulness of Pastoral Internships
1758
In this episode of Pastors’ Talk, Matt Merker—a pastoral assistant at Capitol Hill Baptist Church—chats with Mark Dever about the usefulness of pastoral internships.
Mar 06, 2018
Episode 41: On Prayer Service
1623
In this episode of Pastors’ Talk, Jonathan Leeman and Mark Dever discuss the benefits and best practices of hosting a regular, church-wide prayer gathering—in addition to the Sunday service.
Feb 27, 2018
Episode 40: On Facing Disappointment
1740
How should pastors respond when their ministry is marked by disappointment and unmet expectations?

"Pastor, if you’re discouraged by a lack of fruit, stop looking at the past 20 days. Look at the past 20 years." — Mark Dever
Feb 20, 2018
Episode 39: On Mere Christianity
1711
Is “mere Christianity”—the conviction that we should focus on only what’s essential to being a Christian—really the path toward true Christian unity? Does it guard the gospel over time?
Feb 13, 2018
Episode 38: On the Pastor's Heart and Other Churches
1478
Pastors are used to saying goodbye to long-time friends. In this episode of Pastors’ Talk, Jonathan interviews Mark about how to prepare for these sad-but-joyful moments.
Feb 06, 2018
Episode 37: On the 20th Anniversary of 9Marks
1640
January 2018 marks the 20th anniversary of 9Marks. To celebrate that milestone, Jonathan interviewed the two guys who were there when it all began: Mark Dever and Matt Schmucker.
Jan 30, 2018
Episode 36: On Discipling
1778
Discipling doesn’t need to be tethered to an elaborate program. Instead, it should be a part of a church’s culture. That’s easy to say, but hard to implement.

In this episode of Pastors’ Talk, Jonathan Leeman chats with Mark Dever about discipling in the local church.
Jan 22, 2018
Episode 35: On Leadership (with H.B. Charles, Burk Parsons, and Jeramie Rinne)
2272
Jonathan Leeman interviews four seasoned pastors—Mark Dever, Burk Parsons, H. B. Charles, and Jeramie Rinne—about leadership.
Jan 16, 2018
Episode 34: On Church Discipline
1491
Jan 09, 2018
Episode 33: On Race (part 2)
1918
Mark Dever and Jonathan Leeman continue their conversation about racial division in the church, highlighting the ways pastors can both educate themselves and work against it.
Dec 19, 2017
Episode 32: Remembering R.C. Sproul
905
Mark Dever reflects on his friendship with the late R.C. Sproul.
Dec 18, 2017
Episode 31: On Race (Part 1)
1765
Mark Dever chats with Jonathan Leeman about America's racial history, and how Christians should learn from brothers and sisters who aren't like them.

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Dec 12, 2017
Episode 30: On Planning the Sunday Gathering (with Matt Merker)
1433
What goes into planning the Sunday gathering? Who should pick the songs, the Scripture readings, the types of prayer? Should all these choices be thematically related to the text that will be preached?

In this episode of Pastors’ Talk, Matt Merker—a hymn writer and a pastoral assistant at Capitol Hill Baptist Church—asks Mark Dever all these questions and more.
Dec 05, 2017
Episode 29: On Sermon Preparation
1619
How long should a preacher prep for his sermons? When and how should he consult commentaries? What’s the best way to involve others in the process?
Nov 28, 2017
Episode 28: On Seminary & Pastoral Training (with C. J. Mahaney)
1691
Almost everyone agrees pastors need to be trained, both practically and theologically. But does this mean they must receive formal theological training from a seminary?

In this episode of Pastors’ Talk, Jonathan interviews both Mark and C. J. Mahaney about how pastors should be trained, and what seminaries have to do with it.
Nov 21, 2017
Episode 27: On How to Find a Pastor
1654
How should a church find its next pastor? Who makes this decision? A search committee? A group of elders? The pastor all by himself? And once such a search begins, how should it start?

In this episode of Pastors’ Talk, Jonathan interviews Mark about “one of the most important decisions a church makes,” that is, finding its next pastor.
Nov 14, 2017
Episode 26: On Multi-Site Churches (with Matt Chandler)
1457
Over the past several decades, the multi-site church model has become quite popular. Recently, however, The Village Church, pastored by Matt Chandler, announced it was transitioning all of its sites into independent local churches. In this episode of Pastors' Talk, Mark Dever and Jonathan Leeman interview Matt to talk about the reasons behind this decision.
Nov 07, 2017
Episode 25: On the Mission of the Church
1699
What is the mission of the church? Is it to preach the gospel and make disciples—or is that too narrow? What about good works? What about seeking transformation for our neighborhoods—or is that too broad?
Oct 31, 2017
Episode 24: On Pastoral Friendships
1454
Pastoring can be lonely. But it doesn’t have to be.
Oct 24, 2017
Episode 23: On Polity and Discipleship
1602
Does church order really have anything to do with discipleship? Isn’t one polity—presbyterian, congregational, etc.—just as good as another?

In this episode of Pastors’ Talk, Jonathan Leeman sits down with Mark Dever to talk about these questions and more.
Oct 17, 2017
Episode 22: On the Conscience
1658
Evangelicals are always in danger of losing the gospel because they don’t appreciate the role of the conscience and Christian freedom.

The conscience is there to protect Christian freedom—and Christian freedom protects us from legalism. This is important because when legalism is indulged, it can actually threaten the gospel itself.
Oct 10, 2017
Episode 21: On Missions
1493
Jonathan Leeman sits down with Mark Dever to talk about how local churches can more wisely support overseas work.
Oct 03, 2017
Episode 20: On the Reformation
1559
In conjunction with the Fall 2017 Journal "The Reformation and Your Church," Jonathan Leeman interviews Mark Dever on the Reformation and its usefulness for Christians today.
Sep 26, 2017
Episode 19: On Church Mergers and Plants
1531
We just released a Journal on church planting and church mergers. Because neither Mark nor Jonathan wrote an article for it, we devoted this episode of Pastors’ Talk to the topic.

Also: this will be our last Pastors’ Talk until September, though we’ll be recording them all summer, so send us your ideas if you have them!

SHOW NOTES:

— Have you (Mark) ever been a church planter? (2:30)

— Why are the topics of planting and mergers worth thinking through? (4:10)

— Is there a different skill set for the church planter and someone leading a church merger? (8:00)

— What’s some bad advice you often hear for church planters? (9:20)

— Do some of the problems stem from a dependence on agencies as opposed to churches? What are agencies useful for? What should they not do that they tend to do? (11:00)

— What common wisdom do you have to offer those involved in church mergers? (13:10)

— When does the “church plant” become a church? (19:00)

— Who should leave a church to go with a plant? (20:00)

— Do you have elders first, and then members? Or the other way around? (22:20)
Jun 20, 2017
Episode 18: On Conversion
1565
In a few weeks, we’re releasing a new book, Conversion: How God Creates a People, in which Michael Lawrence makes the case that one’s doctrine of conversion has massive effects on one’s philosophy of ministry. In this episode of Pastors’ Talk, Mark and Jonathan talk about this connection.

SHOW NOTES:

– What’s this new book Conversion about? Why is conversion one of the nine marks? (1:55)

– How does conversion affect one’s philosophy of ministry and even preaching style? (5:30)

– Do liberal Christians have a doctrine of conversion? Same-sex affirming churches? (7:10)

– How does Genesis 3 inform our doctrine of conversion? (9:00)

– Is the doctrine of conversion going to become more and more offensive? (14:40)

– Biblically speaking, what is conversion? (15:40)

– Does “belonging before believing” undermine a biblical doctrine of conversion? Open communion? Spontaneous baptisms? (17:20)

– How does a biblical doctrine of conversion affect a pastor’s preaching? (20:00)

– How is church discipline an implication of the doctrine of conversion? (23:00)
Jun 13, 2017
Episode 17: On How to Receive and Dismiss Members
1608
One of the most important and time-consuming tasks for a church and its pastors involves receiving and releasing members, bringing them in and seeing them out. And yet, it's almost never talked about in books on the church or in seminary.

To fill in this gap, Mark and Jonathan devoted this episode of Pastors' Talk to the one topic: receiving and releasing members.
Jun 06, 2017
Episode 16: On Corporate Prayer
1697
In many evangelical churches, the public prayers are casual, short, and few. Is that a problem? How does this contemporary situation compare to the history of Protestant churches? How should pastors seek to reinvigorate their churches’ prayer practices?

Jonathan sat down with Mark to discuss all these questions and more.

SHOW NOTES:

– In your experience, what does the public prayer look like in the average evangelical church? How does this compare historically? (:50)

– Without impugning motives, why do churches play so little? (2:50)

– Is there a pattern of corporate prayer in the Bible? (4:00)

– Is a church being disobedient if they’re not giving ample time to corporate prayer? (5:25)

– What does should the public prayer look like? What is a prayer of praise of confession? Should only men pray publicly? (6:30)

– How should a pastor think through his “pastoral prayer” (14:00)?

– This amount of prayer can be tough to get through for those not used to it. It slows people down and causes us to actively participate in a service. (21:00)

– Why pray “we” not “I”? (24:45)

– What about a Sunday evening prayer service? (25:15)
May 30, 2017
Episode 15: On How Quickly a Pastor Should Make Changes
1622
It’s tempting for a new pastor to show up with a laundry list of problems that need to be fixed. But that approach almost never works, and many have left churches worse off due to their hastiness in implementing change. To help pastors with this, Jonathan sat down with Mark to chat about how quickly a pastor should try to make changes in a church.

SHOW NOTES:

– You’ve said before that young pastors have great acuity, but poor depth perception. Can you explain that? (1:00)

– What kinds of mistakes do young pastors take? (2:40)

– How did you moderate the pace of change at the beginning of your time at CHBC? (5:50)

– Is “change nothing in your first year” good advice? (9:45)

– What should a pastor give himself to in the first year? Why is preaching so crucial? (13:00)

– Should a pastor deliberately set out to build relationships with those who are disagreeable? How much does that help? (15:55)

– Why should some pastors not practice church discipline right away? (18:00)

– How much does handing out books help? (19:50)

– Three areas of things that might change. (23:00)
May 23, 2017
Episode 14: How the “Senior Pastor” Relates to Other Pastors
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Does the senior pastor—or the teaching pastor, or the lead pastor, or whatever title your church gives to the man who preaches most often—have more authority than other pastors, either in the pay of the church or not? Does he have a kind of different authority?

If you’ve served in a church with a plurality of elders, then you’ve felt tension over these questions. In order to help, Mark sat down with Jonathan to discuss the biblical warrant for a “senior” pastor, what his involvement looks in the church when he’s not preaching, and more.

SHOW NOTES:

– First things first: Is “senior pastor” a biblical designation? (1:00)

– What about the “co-pastor” model? (3:30)

– Why is it that the man who preaches most often will almost inevitably accrue the most authority within the congregation? (4:30)

– What is Mark’s involvement in the church, even when he isn’t preaching on Sunday morning? (5:15)

– Does Mark as senior pastor have “more authority” than other pastors, staff or non-staff? (6:15)

– How does a “senior pastor” set the direction for a church, either good or bad? (9:15)

– How does a pastor submit to other pastors? (11:15)

– What counsel do you have for associate pastors who disagree with their senior pastor? (13:25)

– How should he respond to a pastor who’s been heavy-handed? (17:25)

– Any advice for a new pastor with an established elder board? (20:00)

– How do you cultivate unity among elders? (24:00)
May 16, 2017
Episode 13: On Being a Word-Centered Church
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It’s a question countless pastors ask every single day: How can I grow my church?

In his new book WORD-CENTERED CHURCH, Jonathan Leeman offers a biblical answer to that question. In summary, God intends to grow his church through the proclamation of his Word—and once proclaimed, God intends for that Word to reverberate out from the pulpit and into the whole church’s life and ministry. WORD-CENTERED CHURCH encourages pastors and church leaders to resist the temptation of pragmatism and to instead build their churches on a more trustworthy foundation.

For this episode of Pastors’ Talk, Mark chatted with Jonathan about all this and more.

SHOW NOTES:

– What’s necessary for a church? Does it require a dependence on the Bible? (:30)

– If a church is built on the Word, what room does that leave for good deeds? (4:30)

– What’s the role of preaching? Why “Word-centered church” and not “Christ-centered church”? (6:20)

– When people think about worship, should they associate it strictly with music? (9:30)

– How does the Word reverberate throughout the church and its church’s life? (11:30)

– What do you say to the pastor who doesn’t spend time to study the Word? (13:15)

– In a church with a lot of nominal Christians, how should preaching being prioritized? (16:30)

– What’s Word-Centered Church all about, and how does it differ from Reverberation? (18:00)
May 09, 2017
Episode 12: On Small Groups
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These days, small groups are quite common. But are they enough for community and accountability? What’s the best way to do small groups such that they don’t interfere with the regular Sunday gathering?

Mark and Jonathan discuss these questions and more in the latest episode of Pastors’ Talk.


SHOW NOTES:

– Does Acts 2 describe small groups? (0:45)

– Is there a biblical precedent for small groups? (1:25)

– Is it new that churches build in their pastoring through small groups? (3:40)

– How much guidance should you give small groups? (6:40)

– What should small groups do? (10:40)

– Who should lead a small group? (12:00)

– Should non-members be in small groups? (13:30)

– Should small groups take the Lord’s Supper? (14:45)

– What do you say to the member who doesn’t really come to the Sunday gathering, but is very committed to their small group? (15:45)
May 02, 2017
Episode 11: On Being “Called” to Ministry
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Being “called” to ministry isn’t entirely personal, internal, and subjective. It involves both the individual and a church, an internal desire and external confirmation.

In this Pastors’ Talk episode, Jonathan asked Mark about common misconceptions of pastoral calling, how pastors can cultivate an environment where callings get tested, and the role of the church throughout.

SHOW NOTES:

– What does it mean that calling is both internal and external? (:30)

– Why would you slow a guy down who says, “I know I’m called to ministry”? (2:20)

– What do you say to someone who responds to your hesitation with, “But pastor, the Lord is leading me?” (5:00)

– What are some common errors churches make in discerning one’s sense of calling? (8:50)

– What’s a proper biblical understanding of calling in Scripture? How does it relate to vocation? (10:50)

– Who confirms a pastor? When you leave your church, are you still a pastor? (15:20)

– How does a man’s wife play into his calling as a pastor/elder? (16:40)

– How can a pastor cultivate a healthy environment to test young men and their calling to ministry? (19:05)

– Any general advice for those experiencing the call to ministry? (20:10)

– Is there a special calling for overseas missions? (23:50)
Apr 25, 2017
Episode 10: Should A Church Reflect Its Surrounding Community?
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Does your congregation look like the people who live around it? If not, does it matter? How important is it that a church reflects its surrounding community?

For the latest Pastors’ Talk, Jonathan Leeman sat down with Mark Dever to chat about these questions and more.

SHOW NOTES:

– How hard should a pastor and a church work to reach different kinds of people? Changing music? Changing the way we preach or what we wear? (1:30)

– What about who’s up front? Who gets hired? For example, should white churches seek to hire non-white pastors in order to reach non-whites? (6:00)

– What counsel do you have for the pastor who leads a church that doesn’t look like its surrounding community? (10:15)

– In being deliberate about these things, isn’t there a risk of “inauthenticity”? (12:15)

– What’s the importance of a culture of discipling and evangelism, where members are consistently learning to love people across differences? (14:10)

– How should pastors be careful about the ways they speak publicly on these matters? (17:25)
Apr 18, 2017
Episode 9: On the Use and Abuse of Authority
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Authority is God’s good and dangerous gift. Therefore, it’s of the utmost importance for pastors and church leaders to exercise their authority well, and in doing so image God.

SHOW NOTES:

– Why is authority such an under-talked about topic? (:45)

– Has authority been especially villainized in our current culture? (2:10)

– Are evangelicals any different in their views of the authority? (6:10)

– What is authority? (9:05)

– Why do you think a passage like 2 Samuel 23:3–4 is so important as we think about authority? What can they teach pastors today? (11:00)

– How does a pastor wield his authority well? (14:30)

– What’s the difference between authority and authoritarianism? (15:00)

– How can a pastor be pro-authority while also being anti-authoritarian? (17:05)

– Why is the abuse of authority so heinous? What does it look like for someone to abuse their authority, or to use it too aggressively? (19:45)

– How do you pastor those Christians who have only know the abuse of authority? (23:30)
Apr 11, 2017
Episode 8: What Makes a Good Pastor?
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How do we know what makes a good pastor? Do we learn this exclusively from the Bible? From the latest business books? Jonathan chats with Mark about what a pastor is, and what it means to take a pastoral approach to Christian ministry.
Apr 04, 2017
Episode 7: How to Leave Your Church Well
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Jonathan chats with Mark about good and bad reasons to leave a church, and offers principles for leaving well once the decision has been made.
Mar 28, 2017
Episode 6: On Pastoring Singles
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We just released a Journal with close to 20 articles on Pastoring Singles. Because the Journal was Mark’s idea, Jonathan sat down with him to ask questions on the topic.

SHOW NOTES:

– Why a Journal on singles? (0:40)

– What are the biggest challenges and benefits of pastoring singles (1:30)

– How do you simultaneously affirm marriage while not undermining God’s distinct purposes for singles? (3:20)

– When do you encourage someone to remain single? How do you encourage them to make the most of their singleness? (8:10)

– How can singles be integrated into a congregation? (12:15)

– What about single elders/pastors? (14:00)

– For the single who feels left out, what should a church do? (15:55)

– What do you do when you inherit a church with a robust singles program? (18:10)

– Why “your sex life is your identity” is a satanic lie. (20:45)
Mar 21, 2017
Episode 5: On Political Disagreements in the Church
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We live in politically contentious times. Jonathan Leeman sat down with Mark Dever to chat about how to pastor people faithfully amidst political disagreement.

SHOW NOTES:

– March us through how you pastored through the most contentious election in recent memory. (0:40)

– How preaching builds unity amidst political disagreement. (6:00)

– On the importance of upholding Christian liberty amidst personal, political disagreement (7:45)

– How can we discern “straight-line” issues from “jagged-line” issues? How do we know when to stay silent in order not to improperly bind consciences? (13:00)

– Can we sin by not addressing injustice when we should? (17:30)

– Do you address politically contentious members directly? (22:00)

– Lightning round of questions on the topic. (22:45)
Mar 14, 2017
Episode 4: On Receiving Criticism as a Pastor
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If you’re a pastor, you’re used to being criticized—both fairly and unfairly. In this episode of Pastors’ Talk, Jonathan sits down with Mark to chat about receiving criticism well, the dangers of avoiding criticism altogether, and how to build into a church structures that cultivate a culture of giving and receiving godly criticism.

SHOW NOTES:

– What do you do when you’re criticized after church when you just preached your guts out? (1:15)

– How do you prepare yourself to hear what you know you need to hear, even if it’s something that your flesh will grate against? (4:40)

– Why not defending yourself amidst criticism is sometimes a good idea. (5:50)

– True or false: the more you fear God and the less you fear man, the better you will hear criticism. (9:40)

– What about the wisdom in using others—wife, other elders, etc.—to process current criticisms? (11:15)

– Do you have any words for the pastors who have cloistered themselves so that they never hear criticism? (12:35)

– What structures have you put in place to cultivate a culture of healthy criticism and encouragement? (14:40)

– Any encouragement for pastor who’s beaten up from consistent criticism? (16:00)
Mar 07, 2017
Episode 3: On Sermon Application
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If a preacher is doing his job well, then he's not only explaining what a text means, but also applying that meaning to the lives of his hearers. In this episode of Pastors' Talk, Jonathan Leeman sits down with Mark Dever to talk about the difficult task of sermon application.
Feb 28, 2017
Episode 2: On Pastoring in the Age of Social Media
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A mere ten years ago, social media didn’t exist. Now it’s everywhere. Jonathan Leeman sits down with Mark Dever to chat about the difficulties of pastoring in the age of social media.

SHOW NOTES:

– What are some of the dangers you see intrinsic to social media? (2:45)

– How social media can tempt Christians to add to the gospel (4:30).

– The necessity of humility in our opinions and our discourse (5:30).

– How Christians can become good self-editors? 12 diagnostic questions to continually ask ourselves. (8:00)
Feb 21, 2017
Episode 1: On Gospel Growth Beyond Your Church
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In the inaugural episode of our new podcast Pastors’ Talk, Jonathan Leeman sits down with Mark Dever to talk about seeing the gospel grow in your city, not just your church.

SHOW NOTES:

– What do you do when the revival you’ve been praying for breaks out . . . at the church down the street? (1:08)

– Is it always carnal to desire your own church to grow? (3:02)

– What are some of the signs of a wrongful “turfiness” that pastors should watch out for in their own hearts and ministries? (4:38)

– Why do you pray for other churches by name in CHBC’s services? (6:25)

– Explain how you can structure a staff and budget to help other churches. (8:35)

– What role might ministerial fellowships play in local gospel growth? (12:24)

– Are multi-site and multi-service churches necessarily “turfy”? (14:30)

– What about church planting and revitalizing? (18:49)

– Any last lessons for promoting gospel growth locally? (24:30)
Feb 14, 2017